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[Music]

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what's up everybody happy friday uh we

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have a fantastic show in store for you

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today we're going to introduce you to a

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wonderful woman who uh has just kind of

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joined the ufo twitter scene i mean as

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wonderful and beautiful as it is

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um it's no surprise

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you know i mean it's a hard thing to

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avoid it's it's just a drama-free thing

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it's straight about the facts

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nobody fights it's just so perfect so

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you know i'm i'm not you know shocked by

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that at all

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[Laughter]

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but i'm glad she's here she's she's done

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at least one interview before

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uh

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and maybe we'll try to get you a link to

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that uh before this is over is pretty

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good

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um and she's had her own uh paranormal

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type experiences so we'll probably get

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into that a little bit but first let me

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bring in our

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uh

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wednesday friday

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happy day

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friend

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jay christopher king how are you

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i think we need to workshop that title a

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little bit but i'll take it it's great

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to see you man how are you doing

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i think you got to be here for a longer

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a longer amount of time before you start

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telling me what i got a workshop

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you're right you're right you're

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absolutely right okay i'll be the

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wednesday friday

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yes sir oh yeah it's friday the 13th

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andre's oh that's right oh we'll just

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have to wrap that into my title as well

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that's great oh it's great to see

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katie put in the contract that it had to

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be of friday the 13th oh that's

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important and you're good so

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cool yeah i'm looking for an hour a long

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time from now so we went with today

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yeah long time no see you know it's been

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two whole days it's great to see you i

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know i almost forgot what you look like

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i know right and for those that don't

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know sean and i text pretty frequently

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too so

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we are we're kind of tight at the hip

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i've got a bio for katie should i go

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with that let's do it

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cool katie howland is an award-winning

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humanitarian with experience managing

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programs related to genocide response

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childhood literacy disability and global

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health across the middle east and

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sub-saharan africa

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currently katie leads aid effectiveness

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efforts at a multi-million dollar

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humanitarian disability organization and

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serves as an outspoken activist for uap

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transparency in the national security

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space

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she was profiled as one of the country's

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top 20 lgbtq foreign affairs leaders in

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2021 by out in national security and was

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honored as an inaugural airy changemaker

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in 2020.

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katie has a masters in public health and

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epidemio

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i should have worked out to shop that

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one first and speaks varying degrees of

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english spanish and arabic katie it's

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absolutely great to have you here on the

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show today

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thank you

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i'm glad you all accepted my friday the

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13th writer um so

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very exciting

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i had to check with the producers but

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they were okay with it so you know why

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not

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yeah yeah

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so was it too long ago that um but now

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that i

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um you know first saw you in in the

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twitter uh

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sphere talking uap stuff

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and you kind of uh

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i don't know burst onto the scene so to

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speak one day you're here the next day

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you have like a million followers and

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you know

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you're saying pretty cool stuff and

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you're helping the uap saying

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uapc move forward and all that so i

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guess you know good place to start is

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tell us a little bit about uh yourself

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your background and you know i'm always

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curious about

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uh i'm always curious what the story is

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as far as you know what brings people uh

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to the the uap twitter world or just

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yeah

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in general

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absolutely and i didn't really ex like

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intentionally join ufo twitter um

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i was kind of doing some things behind

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the scenes and was tweeting to my like

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15 followers i was excited about

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something and

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all of a sudden it blew up so um

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that's been wonderful lots of great

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people lots of weird people too but i

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love you

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um but yeah so i am not um

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a uap person by day

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i

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um for over a decade

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i started off actually as a defense

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contractor so i worked

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in a joint army navy program

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for a while and then decided that

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defense wasn't really my thing and i

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wanted to

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save the world classic

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and

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became a humanitarian worker so

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i've done everything from uh managing

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programs in sub-saharan africa focused

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on like maternal mortality

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um i've worked on genocide response in

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northern iraq um and i even had my own

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non-profit

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for a while that was focused on getting

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um

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books and libraries into conflict

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settings so

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um i was able to partner with nadia

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murad who's a nobel peace prize winner

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to build the fur school library in the

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history of sinjar iraq for survivors of

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the yazidi genocide

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so that was really exciting

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um and around the time i was doing that

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i

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was

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volunteering on the biden campaign

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many many many moons ago i interned for

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um

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for him in the white house when he was

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the vice president

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um and so i was able to get on the

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campaign

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and while we were there we got a small

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group of us got an opportunity to speak

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with john podesta

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and as a part of this kind of speaker

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series that we had for young

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professionals on the campaign

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we would ask each of our speakers to

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recommend one book that we should read

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over the summer um that was relevant to

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foreign policy and uh john podesta

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recommended leslie keane's ufo's book um

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pilot girls go on the record for

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something like that

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sure and

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so i read it and i was just

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hooked i mean from that moment i was i

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was just amazed that it took a literal

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white house chief of staff to hand me

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this book for me to get

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you know eat on it and and i was looking

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around at my like my co-workers and

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colleagues who you know are people who

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are going to be our our defense leaders

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our intelligence leaders you know things

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like that in dc

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and no one was talking about it and i

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felt like i was like banging my head

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against a wall

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um because i'm still in a group um that

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kind of morphed out of that

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and even today you know when i would

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when i would send messages to folks you

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know alerting them to news articles or

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to you know current events i would get

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you know a little alien emoji

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and a joke and nothing

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and

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these are people who would rather read

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like a research report and go to the

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movies you know they're like my type of

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nerdy people

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and i you know i just couldn't i

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couldn't stand it you know um it's one

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thing to

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be science-based and not want to dive

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into conspiracy theories it's another to

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flat out ignore science and ignore data

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um

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so i kind of started a

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i would call it like a private campaign

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to convert

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my fellow policy wonks

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and as a part of that i got um

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i invited christopher mellon to come

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speak to our group to our defense and

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intelligence working group and it was

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incredible he came and was incredibly

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gracious with his time

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and it was more of an introduction um

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you know probably probably rehashing a

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lot of what all the folks here have seen

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um

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but this was new a new topic to many and

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in my wisdom i tweeted out that i was

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excited about it and ufo twitter

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unintentionally i did not end up

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joining

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um

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morass that is ufo twitter but i've also

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alert met some great people like you

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guys so it's not all oh likewise

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likewise um

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i'll ask a question i'll kick it to jay

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to take it from there

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um so

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what was it about

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uh leslie kane's book that that made you

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propel forward we you know podesta gave

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you the book and and things are kind of

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coming into view here for you it's a

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huge hill to climb

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so you know typically it's something

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that's that really pulls at your your

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heartstrings so to speak that that

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motivates you to to climb that hill

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um

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was it the book or was it something else

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or you know what do you think

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you know i think it was

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a bit of a lot of things colliding at

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once um

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i know it sounds silly but like i've

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been walking i've been watching

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skinwalker ranch and i was reading the

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books and i had seen a few of the news

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articles but hadn't had it paid very

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close attention

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and

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um

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when i was reading the book in

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particular i was just struck by the

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credibility of the witnesses you know um

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not that there weren't credible

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witnesses before there absolutely were

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um

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but as someone who's worked in foreign

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policy and politics for you know my

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whole career

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i'm a little more conservative

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and

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i think it gave me

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a bit of the permission to actually

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fully

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look into it

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the rational side of ufo twitter we're

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very small

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um

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gave a little bit of a

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i gave myself permission to finally look

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at it right it's not that it hadn't

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existed or i needed someone to introduce

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it to me it was always there i just

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hadn't um

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allowed myself frankly to do it and to

285
00:10:35,910 --> 00:10:35,040
be to be honest too there was also a bit

286
00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:35,920
of

287
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:37,760
um i didn't want to work in government

288
00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:41,680
anymore um i've done that i kind of like

289
00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:43,920
working on the outside and so i had a

290
00:10:47,350 --> 00:10:45,200
little more freedom

291
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:47,360
right like i could push a little harder

292
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:49,279
um than some of my colleagues could who

293
00:10:54,150 --> 00:10:51,360
are trying to jockey for political

294
00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:54,160
appointee jobs you know and things like

295
00:10:58,550 --> 00:10:55,600
that and so

296
00:11:00,150 --> 00:10:58,560
i just i joke in my group with like my

297
00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:00,160
dc colleagues that i'm just gonna keep

298
00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:02,880
being the greasy wheel and just keep

299
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:04,560
being that person that pushes forward

300
00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:07,040
the narrative um but yeah honestly it

301
00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:10,560
really was the book um and then seeing

302
00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:12,800
kind of the universe

303
00:11:16,069 --> 00:11:14,480
collide and i think trying to hit me in

304
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:16,079
the face with like hey look at this look

305
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:22,389
yeah no i i mean before i give it to jay

306
00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:24,079
i'll just say it was the same for me i

307
00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:25,920
mean i had an experience that that

308
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:27,920
brought me to the place to look for

309
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:29,920
stuff but once i started reading all the

310
00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:31,360
experiences of blue book and the

311
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:32,880
documents and

312
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:35,120
how it just was military after military

313
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:37,360
after scientist after all that it was

314
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:40,079
like come on folks here we go you know

315
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:42,720
like enough is enough oh yeah

316
00:11:45,910 --> 00:11:43,519
absolutely

317
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:45,920
i found very few people once they've

318
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,480
actually read the reports and the data

319
00:11:52,629 --> 00:11:50,399
who are able to discount it there are

320
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:52,639
always naysayers but i find the vast

321
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:54,880
majority of people who are skeptics

322
00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:57,360
haven't actually looked at the data and

323
00:12:00,949 --> 00:11:58,959
i think that's a very

324
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:00,959
difference

325
00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:03,440
yeah i think i think one of the key

326
00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:05,600
phrases there i i really appreciate what

327
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:07,440
you're saying here katie and you know

328
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:09,440
one of the key phrases here is giving

329
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:11,440
yourself permission to to look at that

330
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,720
data and

331
00:12:16,389 --> 00:12:14,399
i was having a conversation with

332
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:16,399
somebody earlier who i won't identify

333
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:18,800
but they were kind of saying

334
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,160
you know why

335
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:22,720
why would an experiencer of anomalous

336
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:25,519
phenomena you know um why would somebody

337
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:26,800
that's had

338
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:27,680
you know

339
00:12:36,389 --> 00:12:31,600
these

340
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:36,399
uh in their past why would somebody like

341
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:37,360
that

342
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,079
um be interested in something like these

343
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:42,639
upcoming congressional hearings right

344
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:46,000
and and i kind of replied you know i i

345
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:49,680
it's not necessarily about for me about

346
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:52,079
what the congressional hearing itself is

347
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:55,200
doing but it's how it really affects the

348
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:57,920
larger cultural conversation and it

349
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:00,880
affects the kind of conversations that

350
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:03,279
people can have and i pointed out

351
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:06,399
for example the the original leslie kane

352
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:08,560
ralph blumenthal helene cooper

353
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:10,320
front front page of the new york times

354
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:12,560
you know revealing a tip and those those

355
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:14,399
now famous cockpit videos and things

356
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:16,160
like that saying like you know this is

357
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:18,800
how i was able to talk about this stuff

358
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:20,720
with my grandpa before he passed you

359
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,160
know what i mean and things like that

360
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:24,399
like this really became kind of the

361
00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:27,040
grease and the wheels in terms of

362
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:29,279
being able to have called like public

363
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:30,959
cultural conversations that kind of

364
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:31,839
breach

365
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:35,200
consensus reality so along those lines

366
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:37,360
with giving yourself permission

367
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:38,320
um

368
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:40,959
you know it's also true that sometimes

369
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:43,440
these situations of kind of breaching

370
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:45,920
water they give people

371
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:47,920
permission to think about their own

372
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:49,360
experiences

373
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:54,240
you'd feel comfortable talking about

374
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:55,440
today

375
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,600
yeah absolutely um

376
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:59,040
it's a funny question because i think it

377
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:00,959
ties into what you were talking about in

378
00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:02,639
terms of why would people who've had

379
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:04,639
these experiences want this

380
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:05,519
um

381
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:08,320
what i found is that

382
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:09,760
okay for me personally i've had

383
00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:12,000
anomalous experiences since i was a kid

384
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:12,959
um

385
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:14,800
not anything that i think would be

386
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:19,040
classified as like very intense um

387
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:20,959
but enough that you know i've always

388
00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:23,360
known it was there and it's waned in

389
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:26,800
waxed and waned in intensity and in

390
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:30,480
frequency over time and very honestly i

391
00:14:34,949 --> 00:14:33,120
kind of tried to ignore it um

392
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:34,959
because it wasn't convenient for me it

393
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:37,120
didn't fit into my world of view i was

394
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:39,440
very um

395
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:42,160
you know agnostic verging on atheist you

396
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:44,000
know it just it didn't make sense to me

397
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:46,079
and so i didn't want to explore it

398
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,760
um

399
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:49,920
and what i found was when i started

400
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:52,800
getting into this um

401
00:14:56,829 --> 00:14:54,240
i had that you know what we always like

402
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:56,839
to talk about the ontological shock

403
00:15:02,430 --> 00:15:00,720
of okay um that just kicked my ego in

404
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:02,440
the ass it might be time to kind of

405
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:05,040
re-evaluate things and i started going

406
00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:07,279
back and thinking critically about the

407
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,279
experiences i've had and i mean i've had

408
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:11,279
everything from i've seen multiple full

409
00:15:15,189 --> 00:15:12,880
body apparitions

410
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:15,199
um i've had episodes of precognizance

411
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:17,600
several times um

412
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:23,829
all sorts of um

413
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:25,680
activity where you know things will fly

414
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:27,440
off shelves lights will turn on and off

415
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:28,399
but i mean

416
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:30,480
you name it i've pretty much had it

417
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,680
small orbs um you know and

418
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,680
it sounds like a lot like if i list them

419
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:37,440
all right next to each other right but

420
00:15:41,269 --> 00:15:38,800
there were things that like i kept

421
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:41,279
trying to push away and put in this box

422
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:42,800
and just not handle

423
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:43,839
um

424
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:45,120
so i think what's been really

425
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:46,959
interesting to me is you know people

426
00:15:51,509 --> 00:15:49,360
always say stay away from the woo right

427
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:51,519
um but what personally i found as i

428
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:53,519
looked more and more into this

429
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:54,800
phenomenon

430
00:16:00,710 --> 00:15:57,759
is that i'm not entirely sure that i've

431
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,720
i've said before that we're not all

432
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:02,480
trying to describe the same elephant

433
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:04,480
from different positions in the dark

434
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:07,120
right like i think there's i don't claim

435
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:09,600
to know what all this is um anyone who

436
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:12,160
does i think is full of it um

437
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:14,320
i think there's

438
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:18,480
a lot more mystery than there is um

439
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:20,959
answers at this point and to claim that

440
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:23,920
anyone who's had an anomalous experience

441
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:26,000
you know is not um

442
00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:28,000
true in that experience i think is

443
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:29,199
very

444
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:31,120
short-sighted at this point because the

445
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:32,480
bottom line is we don't know what we're

446
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:34,720
dealing with we don't know how it works

447
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:37,199
we don't know if it's one phenomenon if

448
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:39,199
it's multiple phenomenon if it's you

449
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,800
know manifesting differently to

450
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:43,199
different people i mean there's so many

451
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:45,600
questions um and so that's been i think

452
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:47,680
part of the beauty and also

453
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:49,279
a little bit of the fear of going into

454
00:16:54,629 --> 00:16:52,959
this right this this field is it does

455
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:54,639
shake you up a little bit

456
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,519
um

457
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:57,040
and that's why i was so happy to you

458
00:17:01,670 --> 00:16:59,519
know to kind of come to ufo twitter as

459
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:01,680
interesting as it can be

460
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:04,000
because when i started realizing this it

461
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,760
was really lonely

462
00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:07,600
you know like if you've been surrounding

463
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:09,839
yourself with people your whole life who

464
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:11,919
are like you and then all of a sudden

465
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:13,600
you have this kind of shift in your

466
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:15,360
perspective it can be incredibly

467
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:17,199
isolating

468
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:18,720
completely agreed

469
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:23,199
man that's a great point uh

470
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:25,360
right there you know what

471
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:26,880
when you when you have an experience

472
00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:28,720
like that and because you don't know

473
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,360
what it is and you can't explain it

474
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:33,679
and and your rationale won't you know

475
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:35,840
allow you to just grab onto something

476
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:38,240
just because you can grab onto something

477
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,559
you know you need to talk about it and

478
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:42,240
who are the people around you to talk

479
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,600
about it are

480
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:45,360
people that you think will think you're

481
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:47,280
crazy because you don't know what it is

482
00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:50,799
you know and so what do you do and yeah

483
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:53,440
just like you uh you know

484
00:17:59,430 --> 00:17:56,559
ufo twitter for it for its flaws and

485
00:18:02,070 --> 00:17:59,440
for its uh positive features you know it

486
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:02,080
was a great place to go and

487
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:04,000
and i'm i'm happy i went there because i

488
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:06,559
met people like yourself and jay and and

489
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,039
a lot of other people which really

490
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:11,679
you know helps with that just like the

491
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:14,320
experiencer group uh that jay organizes

492
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,400
i mean that helps too so

493
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:18,240
um

494
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:19,440
with

495
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:21,520
so and i can also see why this kind of

496
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:22,320
uh

497
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:23,760
you know why you like the skinwalker

498
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:25,679
ranch so to speak after hearing about

499
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:31,909
but there's a lot of interesting no i

500
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:33,120
mean

501
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:35,360
it is what it is you know

502
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:37,120
like i think they're you know

503
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,799
you can't look at it and say okay well

504
00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:40,799
there's nothing there okay well the

505
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:42,320
federal government looked into it and

506
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:44,000
spent a lot of money on looking into it

507
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:44,880
so

508
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,600
fire

509
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:51,200
uh totally

510
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:53,039
so yeah so i

511
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:59,110
let me ask you this so

512
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:01,120
how you know in in your defense

513
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:03,840
experience and in your policy experience

514
00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:07,520
what do you find are the biggest um

515
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:09,039
setbacks

516
00:19:14,789 --> 00:19:12,000
in the defense industry that don't won't

517
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:14,799
allow us to go farther than we have so

518
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:16,640
far with this you know you would think

519
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:18,640
they would have a lot of uh hand so to

520
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:21,200
speak in this kind of scenario so so

521
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:23,200
what do you think is uh

522
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,200
keeping us at its stance so although

523
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,600
we're moving forward at a great pace but

524
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:29,919
i just mean you know historically

525
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:31,919
um that's a great question and i think

526
00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:33,280
the first thing i would say is i think

527
00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:34,799
people

528
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:36,160
assume that the government's a lot

529
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:39,200
smarter than it is um you know i think a

530
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:42,559
lot of times people scream conspiracy or

531
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:45,840
intentional deflection when really

532
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:47,360
people just have a lot on their plates

533
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:48,880
and don't really care

534
00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:51,360
um you know imagine

535
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:54,000
imagine your dumbest colleagues at your

536
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:55,600
workplace and the smartest colleagues at

537
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:56,720
your workplace well that's what the

538
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:58,240
government's like too right they have

539
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:59,200
all of them they have some really

540
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:00,720
brilliant people and some really not so

541
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:01,919
brilliant people

542
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:02,880
um

543
00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:05,520
so i think first of a fair amount first

544
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:08,159
and foremost you know it's recognizing

545
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:10,880
that not everything is a conspiracy um

546
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:13,760
the second is i worked when i was a

547
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:15,919
defense contractor which was like i said

548
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:17,600
very briefly but still

549
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:20,480
on a joint army navy program

550
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:23,440
those are incredibly rare um

551
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:25,360
i was working on the time at trying to

552
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:28,000
develop a radio waveform that could be

553
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:31,120
interoperable with our allies

554
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:31,919
but

555
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:34,960
the amount of bureaucratic mess that was

556
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:38,000
involved because it was two branches was

557
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:41,360
insane um trying to get the most basic

558
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:43,039
thing done like when i was supposed to

559
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:46,240
go to europe for a working group meeting

560
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:48,640
um had to go through like two separate

561
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:50,880
chains of command and sometimes like

562
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:52,799
they weren't talking to each other and

563
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:55,919
that was for a very small not super

564
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,679
secret project right

565
00:21:02,149 --> 00:20:59,679
um so i think

566
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:02,159
there's a lot of just branches not

567
00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:04,559
talking to each other um

568
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:06,559
not necessarily even because they don't

569
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:08,720
want to just because you know

570
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,640
everything's so regimented and

571
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:12,480
structured in a way that kind of

572
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:15,280
prevents a lot of collaboration and some

573
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:17,280
of that is you know operational security

574
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:19,440
right that's a good way to keep things

575
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:21,280
secret right you have very strict chains

576
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:23,919
of command very um

577
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:25,919
closed ways of communicating

578
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:27,679
so i think that's definitely part of it

579
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:30,159
um and then the last part i was just

580
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,679
talking to someone about this i forget

581
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:33,840
who on twitter um

582
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:35,200
is about knowing the difference between

583
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:38,159
political appointees and civil service

584
00:21:41,350 --> 00:21:38,960
uh

585
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:41,360
so political so at the pentagon for

586
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:43,760
example right you're going to have folks

587
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:44,400
who

588
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:49,600
there no matter which administration

589
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:50,799
is in power

590
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:51,919
um

591
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:54,960
and they will typically be

592
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:57,600
pretty you know conservative and doing

593
00:22:01,350 --> 00:21:59,600
things the way they've been done and

594
00:22:03,669 --> 00:22:01,360
following process and procedure and

595
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:03,679
structure right their jobs aren't at

596
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:05,840
risk every couple years so they're

597
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:07,679
pretty comfortable in where they are

598
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,360
then you have political appointees who

599
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:11,520
come in who have

600
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:13,039
different agendas depending on the

601
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:15,840
administration who are also incredibly

602
00:22:20,789 --> 00:22:17,919
ambitious and know their jobs have a

603
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:20,799
sunset so by definition they're always

604
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:23,520
jockeying for the next role so

605
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:25,520
on the one hand they're incredibly

606
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,799
ambitious in wanting to push new

607
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:28,880
initiatives forward but they're also

608
00:22:33,669 --> 00:22:31,039
very cautious in what those initiatives

609
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:33,679
are because it could have a very rapid

610
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:36,480
blow back on them and on their career

611
00:22:41,909 --> 00:22:39,200
and so i think that a lot of what we see

612
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:41,919
frankly is just people being

613
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:43,840
really really protective

614
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,919
of their careers um

615
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:47,200
and that's one of the reasons that i

616
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:48,080
think

617
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:50,080
i i started getting involved in this is

618
00:22:55,750 --> 00:22:52,960
because you know i'm in my early 30s and

619
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,760
i was seeing that while a lot of

620
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:57,600
higher folks are starting to talk about

621
00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:58,720
this you know we're seeing members of

622
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:01,919
congress and dna dni and you know all

623
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:03,600
sorts of people discussing this you're

624
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:06,000
not kind of seeing that trickle down

625
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:08,240
and i was really concerned about that

626
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:09,760
because the people who are in their 20s

627
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:11,919
and 30s now are going to be leaders on

628
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:13,039
this topic

629
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:14,720
and i think the reason they're not

630
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:16,400
discussing it is because they want those

631
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:18,320
jobs right there's still the stigma

632
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:21,280
attached unfortunately um and so i've

633
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:23,679
been kind of making it my mission to be

634
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,120
the middle man

635
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:27,200
and and trying to get those younger

636
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:29,200
folks talking about this learning about

637
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:33,440
it you know um and involved in any way

638
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:36,240
that's that's brilliant and i mean this

639
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:37,760
this working group that you've this

640
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:39,520
group that you've got with chris millen

641
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:41,039
coming in and things like that it sounds

642
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:43,679
like there's a lot of progress happening

643
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:47,039
in that in that direction you know um

644
00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:49,440
one thing that of course uh we should

645
00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:52,320
probably talk about today is that

646
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,640
next week we have this

647
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:56,159
historic

648
00:23:59,190 --> 00:23:57,760
congressional hearing

649
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:59,200
with one of the intelligence

650
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:01,200
subcommittees the c3

651
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:03,200
subcommittee

652
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:05,840
and they're bringing in ron moultrie and

653
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:07,039
scott bray

654
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:08,960
to testify and talk about uap

655
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:11,679
transparency issues um i know that

656
00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:13,600
you've done some i know that you've

657
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:15,039
thought about this

658
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,760
hearing and are looking forward to it um

659
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:19,440
can you talk to us about a little bit

660
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:20,480
about

661
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:23,200
what you see happening there and whether

662
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:25,279
you see this as

663
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:27,200
as something that could further the

664
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:31,039
conversation uh within dc in terms of of

665
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:35,679
relevancy and removing stigma etc

666
00:24:39,669 --> 00:24:37,279
yeah sure um

667
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:39,679
i have thought about a lot this a lot i

668
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:41,840
just finished up yesterday writing an

669
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:44,320
op-ed that will hopefully run on monday

670
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,240
more for new folks um and also sent in a

671
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,000
bunch of hearing questions this morning

672
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:52,400
um in collaboration with some other um

673
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:54,080
former national security professionals i

674
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:55,360
won't name them here i don't know if

675
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:57,360
they want me to name name them um but

676
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:59,360
some smart folks you'd recognize

677
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:00,559
um

678
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:01,840
and

679
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:03,919
i'm hopeful um

680
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:05,279
i think we have to be cautious with what

681
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:07,600
we expect from the hearing right

682
00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:09,440
um i think it's important for us to note

683
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:11,840
the context uh

684
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:13,520
i could be wrong but my read on the

685
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:14,640
situation

686
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:16,240
is that this is coming as a direct

687
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:18,640
result of the classified briefings that

688
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:21,120
they were very um unhappy with

689
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:22,159
um

690
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:23,760
you know we have

691
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:26,720
a aoi msg are we calling it the aim

692
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:29,360
office i don't know whatever that

693
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:32,640
disaster is um it's going to be you know

694
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:35,440
theoretically fully operational um in

695
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:36,960
june and so my read is that they're

696
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:38,320
trying to set the stage with their

697
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:41,520
expectations um since they were unhappy

698
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:44,640
i do not think anyone should expect any

699
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:46,640
bombshell revelations to come from this

700
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:48,320
i think that's an

701
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:50,159
unreasonable expectation as much as i

702
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:51,440
would love that

703
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:53,039
um

704
00:25:58,870 --> 00:25:56,559
i think what we can expect though is

705
00:26:01,590 --> 00:25:58,880
moving this conversation hopefully

706
00:26:03,990 --> 00:26:01,600
further into the public commentary um

707
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:04,000
public sphere um

708
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:05,360
you know my goal with a lot of the

709
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:07,279
hearing questions was not necessarily to

710
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:08,000
get

711
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:09,840
new information that anyone on ufo

712
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:12,000
twitter would be like oh my god about

713
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:13,760
what was to get people on the record in

714
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:16,320
a public setting on live tv confirming a

715
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,480
lot of what we know that these craft are

716
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,480
trans medium that they can go eight to

717
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,960
ten thousand miles per hour that we have

718
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:24,480
no evidence that their foreign

719
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:26,960
adversarial technology you know like all

720
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:28,240
that kind of stuff

721
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:29,120
um

722
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:32,240
so my hope is that that will happen

723
00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:33,600
um

724
00:26:38,230 --> 00:26:36,080
i also think it'll be interesting to see

725
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:38,240
the personalities at play because

726
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:39,760
different members have different agendas

727
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:41,279
there are some who are very concerned

728
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,279
about transparency some who are very

729
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:46,080
concerned about flight safety um some

730
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:47,840
folks who want to talk about space

731
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:50,320
debris you know um

732
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:52,799
so i i think it's anyone's guess how

733
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:55,120
it's going to turn out um but like i

734
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,159
said i think we should be very

735
00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:00,880
cautious in what we expect from it um

736
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:03,039
and recognize that this is just a step

737
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:06,080
right um i wouldn't be so i would not be

738
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:08,000
surprised if the senate then didn't hold

739
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,360
their own hearings

740
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:12,320
um as well so i think this is

741
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:13,760
you know our first stepping stone and we

742
00:27:18,630 --> 00:27:16,400
should view it that way

743
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,640
makes a lot of sense

744
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:20,640
or stepping stone in this process i know

745
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:22,960
there's been a lot that led up to this

746
00:27:26,789 --> 00:27:25,120
absolutely

747
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:26,799
thank you

748
00:27:29,909 --> 00:27:28,720
first of all i totally disagree i think

749
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:29,919
we're going to learn everything about

750
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:35,669
i think uh moultrie's gonna unzip his

751
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:37,760
bodysuit and it's gonna be an alien

752
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:39,360
underneath

753
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:41,120
i'm just kidding no

754
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:41,840
i

755
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:46,480
um

756
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:48,880
you know the the article had come out i

757
00:27:52,149 --> 00:27:50,480
think what it was at politico or

758
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:52,159
something talking about

759
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:54,399
yeah how they were upset um that they

760
00:28:00,789 --> 00:27:57,760
just keep getting reports but nothing

761
00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:00,799
you know uh with meat so to speak as far

762
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:02,399
as like what why

763
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:04,320
where all that kind of stuff and they're

764
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:05,600
pretty irritated with that and then you

765
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:06,480
see

766
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:09,679
you know job listings coming out right

767
00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:11,200
you know for different sorts of

768
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,120
positions and then we have these

769
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:15,440
hearings so i think you're you're

770
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:16,960
exactly right

771
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:20,080
and i also have the same hopes as you um

772
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:20,880
that

773
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:25,120
be uh confirmed by the government you

774
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:27,120
know via congressional hearings under

775
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,720
oath i think that would uh be that would

776
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:32,640
be a bombshell to me

777
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:34,960
so so to speak so

778
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:37,120
um

779
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,440
you know i guess uh as far as questions

780
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:42,000
wise i don't know i was just in in the

781
00:28:45,990 --> 00:28:44,799
midst of just agreeing with you so

782
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:46,000
i get

783
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:51,830
yeah if uh if

784
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:55,039
you know so let's say you know um pretty

785
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:57,440
much what happens or what we talked

786
00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:59,039
about happens

787
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:00,640
um let's say minus even the

788
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:02,799
confirmations right um and they just get

789
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,080
blasted for for being behind the ball

790
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:08,480
um how would you

791
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:11,760
or what would you recommend for

792
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:16,000
you know setting proper expectations for

793
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:18,720
you know the the observers of all this

794
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:21,279
that aren't necessarily involved uh on

795
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:23,520
the inside

796
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:26,559
i think the most important thing at this

797
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:29,360
stage is to understand how dod thinks

798
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:30,880
and how they write

799
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:34,000
um i saw this with the preliminary uap

800
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:35,840
task force assessment

801
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:38,399
um dod is obviously very conservative by

802
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:40,480
nature i don't mean politically i mean

803
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:42,559
you know in terms of

804
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:45,120
admitting things as black or black and

805
00:29:49,909 --> 00:29:47,279
white saying things so for example one

806
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:49,919
example of this is in the uap task force

807
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:52,799
report right they say that there is

808
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:56,000
no current data to suggest that this is

809
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,080
indicative of a foreign um foreign

810
00:30:02,070 --> 00:29:59,840
adversarial tech right

811
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:02,080
but they also say earlier in the report

812
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:05,360
that this tech could be russia or china

813
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:07,520
a lot of folks a lot of folks looked at

814
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:09,440
that and said oh they think it's russia

815
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:10,720
or china

816
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,320
that's not what they said

817
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:14,240
right you have to understand that what

818
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:16,399
they are saying is we cannot rule this

819
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:17,679
out

820
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:19,520
but we don't have any data

821
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:21,520
so what that means to me and what they

822
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:23,440
were saying for someone who can kind of

823
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:25,919
agree between the lines is

824
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,679
the only

825
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:29,679
pr you know conceivable options that it

826
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:32,320
could be would be russia or china but we

827
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:34,240
don't have any evidence of that and so i

828
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,760
think you have to

829
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:37,840
be very careful with how you read what

830
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:40,559
they say because every word has meaning

831
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:43,200
and so just because they don't say it

832
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:44,960
isn't adversarial tech they're never

833
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:46,960
going to say that because there's going

834
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,080
to be one circumstance in which it is

835
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:52,480
you know and so i you have to be very

836
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:54,240
cautious in how you interpret what they

837
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:55,120
say

838
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:56,399
if you don't have data how are you going

839
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:57,440
to know

840
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:58,640
you know right

841
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:59,600
right

842
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:00,960
but unfortunately the media doesn't

843
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:02,880
write that right that way and that's why

844
00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:05,039
i think it's important to

845
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:07,600
read the transcripts watch the hearing

846
00:31:12,310 --> 00:31:10,000
as long and as boring as it may be at

847
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:12,320
times um but that's something that i

848
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:14,880
would really caution people to take to

849
00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:15,760
heart

850
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:17,519
um

851
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:20,880
uh you know uh literal you know

852
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:23,919
extraterrestrial lands in front of our

853
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:26,399
news cameras no one is going to say

854
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:28,080
they are real like that's just not going

855
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:29,120
to happen

856
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:32,159
um if it does happen you know quote me

857
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:33,760
and i'll buy you a drink

858
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:36,320
um but it's just not how

859
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:38,240
it's just not how the dod works right

860
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,320
there they're going to be very cautious

861
00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:42,240
until they are forced into a corner

862
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:43,919
because they never want to be proven

863
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:45,039
wrong

864
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:46,880
right understood

865
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:50,000
now along those lines um we were talking

866
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:52,880
a couple days ago on the show about how

867
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:55,360
i believe it's ron moultrie uh he got

868
00:32:00,549 --> 00:31:57,840
his masters uh in russian studies and a

869
00:32:03,029 --> 00:32:00,559
lot of his his formative years were were

870
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:03,039
in russian intelligence and scott bray

871
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:05,360
has been an expert in chinese

872
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:07,039
intelligence and has been a china

873
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,559
subject matter expert so if we if you

874
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:12,720
know regardless of their incredibly

875
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:15,120
senior positions within this you've got

876
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:16,159
one guy

877
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:17,120
that

878
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:19,039
maybe is read up enough to be able to

879
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:20,640
tell you whether they're russian or not

880
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:23,279
and you've got another guy that is maybe

881
00:32:26,710 --> 00:32:24,720
read up enough to tell you whether

882
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:26,720
they're chinese or not

883
00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:29,600
in terms of incremental steps you know

884
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:30,640
between

885
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:32,320
you know where where we are in the

886
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:34,399
public discourse at least in washington

887
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:35,440
right now

888
00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:38,000
and um and you know like show me the

889
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:40,880
bodies or whatever roswell style

890
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:41,760
um

891
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:44,000
do you think that it's possible that

892
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,799
that

893
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:47,039
you know given the two people testifying

894
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:50,320
next week we can we can at least

895
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:52,640
get past some of these initial hurdles

896
00:32:57,830 --> 00:32:55,279
with regard to uh they might be russia

897
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:57,840
they might be china and do you see an

898
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:00,720
advantage to getting past that hurdle um

899
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:05,190
i think

900
00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:06,399
uh

901
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:08,000
i don't know enough about those two

902
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:10,799
gentlemen personally um to answer with a

903
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:13,120
ton of intelligence on it but i will

904
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:16,399
tell you what i think is likely um

905
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:17,919
i know for example chris mullins

906
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:21,200
mentioned once before at least that

907
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:22,480
you know we need to be cognizant first

908
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:25,840
of all that not all uap are the same um

909
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:26,880
and that

910
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:28,799
some of them particularly you know

911
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:30,880
particularly like um

912
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:32,240
some stuff that's happened off the coast

913
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:35,039
of the pacific um in like

914
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:37,120
california um

915
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:39,120
could be drone swarms that are chinese

916
00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:41,200
uh you know it's it's hard it's hard to

917
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:43,120
tell um

918
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:44,880
without looking at the individual specs

919
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:48,480
of each case right um

920
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:50,000
but i definitely don't think that's all

921
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:51,440
of them um

922
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,279
i do think it's going to be challenging

923
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:55,440
though if you start asking all or

924
00:33:58,070 --> 00:33:56,960
nothing questions

925
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:58,080
i think

926
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:59,679
either one of those gentlemen will

927
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:00,880
answer

928
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:02,880
an all-or-nothing fashion right so if

929
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:04,559
your question is

930
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:06,240
you know is this russian or chinese tech

931
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:07,840
and their answer is some of them might

932
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:09,280
be that's going to be the headline it's

933
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:10,879
not going to be

934
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:12,480
yeah some of them might be but what

935
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:14,480
about the rest of the 90

936
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,480
right

937
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:18,960
and so i think that you're not going to

938
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:21,040
hear them say it is not russian it is

939
00:34:24,629 --> 00:34:22,960
not chinese i i just don't think that's

940
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:24,639
going to ever happen um because i

941
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:26,079
guarantee there's one case that will

942
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:27,440
prove to be russian in one case that

943
00:34:31,829 --> 00:34:29,760
will prove to be chinese and also

944
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:31,839
there's the tiny

945
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:33,599
aspect of the fact that that's their

946
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:36,240
subject area and subject matter experts

947
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:38,000
love to point to their own subject

948
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:40,879
expertise as a result um it's just like

949
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:43,040
a vlog

950
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:45,520
i'm really smart about northern iraq and

951
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,800
every time someone brings something up

952
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:48,240
i'm like yeah but except for northern

953
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:50,000
iraq xyz

954
00:34:55,829 --> 00:34:53,599
um so i think that that's unfortunately

955
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:55,839
a side effect we'll see um but i do

956
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:57,680
think it is promising that we have folks

957
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:00,720
with these expertise because

958
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:03,200
if not externally internally they'll be

959
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:04,480
able to set their narrative straight

960
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:05,920
you're right um

961
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:07,680
because for more

962
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,680
more or less we know what capabilities

963
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:11,520
other people have right like we know

964
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:13,119
that

965
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:14,480
you know

966
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:16,960
russia and china most likely don't have

967
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:20,400
a drone that goes 12 000 miles per hour

968
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:22,720
with no heat signatures right

969
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:24,960
it's it's just unlikely given the state

970
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:27,040
of where we are um and they and someone

971
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:29,760
like you know moultrie or or the other

972
00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:31,760
gentleman will be able to say you know

973
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,359
based on our current intelligence this

974
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:35,760
is the best we think they have

975
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:36,960
um

976
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,960
but unfortunately as much as i like wish

977
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:40,560
i could give you all these fantastic

978
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:43,200
news i know dc too well and like i don't

979
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:44,960
think you're going to get some

980
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:46,240
incredible

981
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:48,160
no it's not adversarial tech i think

982
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:49,520
what you'll get

983
00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:51,520
are statements like that from members of

984
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:54,640
congress that are really indicative of

985
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:56,480
um what they think and i would almost

986
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:58,320
pay more attention to their questions

987
00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:59,760
because keep in mind those are folks

988
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:02,000
who've seen the classified briefings

989
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,320
right and so i think if you want to pay

990
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:06,160
attention to something don't pay

991
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:07,920
attention to the pentagon right they

992
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:08,880
have

993
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:12,160
would pay attention to the questions

994
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:15,040
that the members are asking

995
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:17,040
that's that's brilliant that's really

996
00:36:23,670 --> 00:36:20,480
smart thank you for that yeah uh sean

997
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:23,680
yeah yeah can i help you no

998
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:26,720
yeah no i

999
00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:29,760
you're i mean bummerville but uh i can

1000
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,720
completely i can completely

1001
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,240
i can completely oh it's good to be

1002
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:36,640
realistic right yeah and that's what i

1003
00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:39,359
asked i'm on base sorry about that yeah

1004
00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:41,920
no no i i completely get it you almost

1005
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:44,800
have to ask questions that um

1006
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:46,800
um and maybe we could brainstorm some of

1007
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:48,320
those what are some questions that would

1008
00:36:53,109 --> 00:36:51,040
almost paint the picture for people that

1009
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:53,119
they can't be foreign without them

1010
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:55,040
having to say something like that you

1011
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:55,920
know

1012
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:56,880
like

1013
00:37:01,589 --> 00:36:59,280
you know just spitballing um

1014
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:01,599
you know are you aware

1015
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:05,119
of any you know tech that can go

1016
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:08,400
13 000 miles an hour that you know

1017
00:37:12,069 --> 00:37:10,240
that's in our possession or somebody

1018
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:12,079
else's you know something where they

1019
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:13,440
would have to say

1020
00:37:19,829 --> 00:37:15,680
no

1021
00:37:21,430 --> 00:37:19,839
data that shows this one such and such

1022
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:21,440
miles per hour so

1023
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:23,599
what is it then you know

1024
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:25,280
um

1025
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:27,280
but you know it's hard to come up with

1026
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:28,720
those questions without having a better

1027
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:30,880
grasp of what people actually know and

1028
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:32,480
don't know now

1029
00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:33,920
somebody in the chat actually brought up

1030
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:37,920
a good point like it's hard to believe

1031
00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:38,720
oh

1032
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:40,960
you disappeared on me

1033
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:42,480
oh that's okay it's hard it's hard to

1034
00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:44,160
believe that um

1035
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:46,079
do you let me just ask you this do you

1036
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:48,640
honestly think that they don't have

1037
00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:51,359
any data

1038
00:37:57,589 --> 00:37:54,000
right now that that proves to them

1039
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:57,599
personally that it's not foreign

1040
00:38:00,790 --> 00:37:58,640
like uh

1041
00:38:02,829 --> 00:38:00,800
in the dod for instance do you really

1042
00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:02,839
think that they don't know

1043
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:04,640
basically i think the problem is you're

1044
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:06,400
asking them to prove a negative right

1045
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:08,000
can you ever prove something for sure

1046
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:10,720
isn't something

1047
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:12,240
no right i mean i think they probably

1048
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:14,400
have enough data to say

1049
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:16,240
we know russians have xyz we know

1050
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,320
chinese have xyz this exceeds their

1051
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:20,160
capabilities by x

1052
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:22,079
um i so i think a lot of people probably

1053
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:23,359
suspect that

1054
00:38:27,589 --> 00:38:25,119
um

1055
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:27,599
but i don't think that anyone's ever

1056
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:30,480
going to make any definitive statements

1057
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:32,720
yes i really don't just to me like when

1058
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:34,720
you package it with all a history of

1059
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,320
ufology right

1060
00:38:40,069 --> 00:38:37,920
like the in the and it's the same

1061
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:40,079
descriptions by the pilots today of

1062
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:43,440
pilots then in 47 90 degree turns

1063
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:46,800
you know uh stops on a dime hovers um

1064
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:48,400
you know vectored

1065
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:50,320
uh planes vector towards the things

1066
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:51,680
can't catch up

1067
00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:54,320
on radar seen visually for decades and

1068
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:55,440
decades

1069
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:56,400
um

1070
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:57,440
it

1071
00:39:00,790 --> 00:38:58,640
how i mean

1072
00:39:03,109 --> 00:39:00,800
you know if you were multi-go how

1073
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:03,119
possible in your estimate in your

1074
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:05,040
estimation sir is it that something

1075
00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:06,000
could go

1076
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:10,160
um 13 000 miles an hour in 1951

1077
00:39:14,069 --> 00:39:12,320
right and and i think that's the hurdle

1078
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:14,079
we're going to have cross next with new

1079
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:15,839
people who are coming in

1080
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:18,000
is people watch these hearings they go

1081
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:20,160
okay this is interesting but you know

1082
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:21,680
it's probably our tech

1083
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:23,680
that's the hurdle we're gonna pass of

1084
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:26,880
okay so yeah maybe it's not

1085
00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:28,960
that insane to think that we could have

1086
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:32,079
the tic tac technology now but they were

1087
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:34,480
describing flying butane tanks and

1088
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:37,599
throat lozenges right etc in the 40s and

1089
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:40,240
50s and that's when it starts to just

1090
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:43,440
become way beyond possibility right like

1091
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:46,640
now if it was now just now it's

1092
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:49,680
incredible if it was back then it's you

1093
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:52,400
know life-altering technology right yeah

1094
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:53,440
um

1095
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:55,359
so i think that we're gonna have to be

1096
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:58,000
very cautious as new people come in

1097
00:40:02,470 --> 00:39:59,680
of countering that narrative and cutting

1098
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:02,480
it down as quickly as we can um because

1099
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:04,319
people aren't going to want to listen to

1100
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,599
historical cases they're going to want

1101
00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:07,599
to talk about what's happening now

1102
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:09,280
because that's what one's talking about

1103
00:40:13,109 --> 00:40:10,560
now on the hill right they're talking

1104
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:13,119
about tic tac and gimbal and go fast and

1105
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:15,280
um those are incredible cases but that's

1106
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:22,470
thank you so much

1107
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:29,589
that's something we that's something

1108
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:31,680
we've established we know this shawn's

1109
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:33,680
always hungry um

1110
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:36,000
i now i i think that the audience is

1111
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:37,760
really going to appreciate this that

1112
00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:39,200
this segment of the conversation that

1113
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:40,960
we've been establishing here and thank

1114
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,560
you so much for going into the weeds

1115
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:44,400
katie with regard to

1116
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:47,680
dc and kind of what we can expect and

1117
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:49,119
it's i think it's really important to

1118
00:40:53,589 --> 00:40:51,280
temper our expectations and at the same

1119
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:53,599
time you know i think we're all looking

1120
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:56,480
for that kind of sound bite or feud that

1121
00:41:01,990 --> 00:40:59,920
can that can be kind of like

1122
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:02,000
that we can make operable and kind of

1123
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:04,720
like move move the ball forward you know

1124
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:07,920
yes absolutely now um

1125
00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:09,200
you know there's

1126
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:11,680
you've established so much in terms of

1127
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:13,119
we can go into

1128
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,319
um

1129
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:16,800
the work that you've done overseas

1130
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:18,640
i'll wait until she comes back

1131
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:25,829
you know if this was a classic art bell

1132
00:41:30,550 --> 00:41:28,720
episode or pretend to be her an answer

1133
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:30,560
yeah yeah right on you know there's

1134
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:32,960
there's been

1135
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:34,560
this used to be one of the big things

1136
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:35,760
you guys like

1137
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,760
for those in the audience um that don't

1138
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:40,000
know uh back in the day

1139
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:41,040
um

1140
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:44,480
uh art bell and this is around like 2000

1141
00:41:49,349 --> 00:41:47,280
2001 when cell signals were really when

1142
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:49,359
people were starting to really adopt

1143
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:52,079
cell phones um it would be really common

1144
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,680
for people to lose

1145
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:55,680
their their call and calling into the

1146
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:57,599
midnight programs and stuff like this

1147
00:42:01,990 --> 00:41:59,760
and there was this common refrain of of

1148
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:02,000
like oh it's the government it's that

1149
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:03,680
government they're they're they're

1150
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:04,720
trying to get in the way of the

1151
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:06,800
conversation they're trying to get in

1152
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:08,720
the way there oh there you are and now

1153
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:10,319
you're all right i'm going on my phone

1154
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:12,240
over data i'm sorry guys my wi-fi has

1155
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:13,760
been horrible today

1156
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:14,560
oh

1157
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:17,200
no worries it's i was just i was just

1158
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:19,200
joking around but

1159
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:24,390
that uh for years and years and years

1160
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:27,200
back at their like at the onset of the

1161
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:29,119
21st century that people like art bell

1162
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:31,200
and stuff like that would when sell

1163
00:42:35,829 --> 00:42:33,119
signal was

1164
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:35,839
first happening that people would uh

1165
00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:38,319
lose their that people would drop calls

1166
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:40,160
on the midnight programs a lot and it'd

1167
00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:42,000
be like oh it's the government they're

1168
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:43,200
trying to get in the way of this

1169
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:45,200
conversation about bigfoot or whatever

1170
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:47,119
you know what i mean things like that

1171
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:49,440
so um so you know we could play that

1172
00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:51,200
card for sure to kind of suck up a

1173
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:53,119
little bit of time there which is great

1174
00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:55,920
um now i'll you know thank you so much

1175
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:57,920
for getting into the weeds with us again

1176
00:43:01,349 --> 00:43:00,079
now you've done a lot of advocacy work

1177
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:01,359
for people with chronic health

1178
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:03,680
challenges and disabilities and from

1179
00:43:08,790 --> 00:43:06,000
what i know this is a deeply important

1180
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:08,800
issue for you do you feel comfortable

1181
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:10,880
talking with us and the audience a

1182
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:13,119
little bit about that

1183
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:16,000
yeah absolutely so um i'm kind of a

1184
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:19,040
medical disaster myself

1185
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:21,839
i have a number of autoimmune conditions

1186
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:22,720
that

1187
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:25,680
took doctors over a decade to diagnose

1188
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:28,560
which is a very common thing with people

1189
00:43:31,829 --> 00:43:30,160
um who have chronic health issues

1190
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:31,839
especially autoimmune

1191
00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:32,800
um

1192
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:33,760
and so

1193
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:34,560
i

1194
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:39,119
to use arm crutches to get around or

1195
00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:41,520
wheelchairs on rare occasions

1196
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:44,000
but i don't look disabled uh

1197
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:46,480
and so that honestly has

1198
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:49,200
caused a lot of challenges um

1199
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:51,440
having limitations but that aren't

1200
00:43:57,750 --> 00:43:54,960
visible is very difficult um

1201
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:57,760
people think that you're faking people

1202
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:00,400
um forget really easily that your your

1203
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:02,640
capabilities are a little tempered a

1204
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:03,760
little different

1205
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:06,240
um and so i've

1206
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:08,640
been trying really hard to

1207
00:44:12,630 --> 00:44:10,800
spread awareness of what it's like to

1208
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:12,640
be someone with invisible disabilities

1209
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:13,839
um

1210
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:17,119
and it's particularly interesting to me

1211
00:44:22,230 --> 00:44:20,000
in this context because there's a lot of

1212
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:22,240
anecdotal evidence and possibly more

1213
00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:24,240
than anecdotal evidence but not in the

1214
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:25,760
public sphere

1215
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:28,000
um that experiencers of a lot of

1216
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:30,240
different types may have

1217
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:31,280
um

1218
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:32,800
kind of immune system malfunction

1219
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:35,599
whether it's autoimmune conditions or

1220
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:38,079
cancers or things like that

1221
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,720
so um you know i'm not saying that's why

1222
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:42,400
i have different conditions that's not

1223
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:45,359
what i'm saying but there's a lot of um

1224
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:47,440
folks in this community i think who are

1225
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:49,920
dealing with these issues as well and so

1226
00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:51,280
i think it's an important thing to just

1227
00:44:55,510 --> 00:44:53,440
kind of continuously bring to the

1228
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:55,520
forefront and talk about and make sure

1229
00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:59,359
that we are doing everything we can to

1230
00:45:04,150 --> 00:45:01,440
look at the human health aspects of this

1231
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:04,160
as well because we don't know like i

1232
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,599
said we don't know what the phenomenon

1233
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:07,359
is we don't know the impact it'll have

1234
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:10,240
on human health and human well-being um

1235
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:11,440
and it's important that we don't lose

1236
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:17,589
yeah i think it's really great that

1237
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:19,760
um you know there's people like yourself

1238
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:21,839
that are they're actually looking at

1239
00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:23,119
that and paying attention to that

1240
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:24,880
because i think it's definitely

1241
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:27,040
um it's one of those aspects of this

1242
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:29,119
that i think people are afraid to touch

1243
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,720
on too much

1244
00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:32,640
but there is definitely plenty of uh

1245
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:34,480
evidence to suggest there could be a

1246
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:38,000
link enough to you know look into it uh

1247
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,319
seriously and i just want to say for the

1248
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:42,800
record like um

1249
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:45,200
you know you say you're um

1250
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,599
you know disabled and you have uh

1251
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:50,000
uh health issues and everything but um

1252
00:45:55,750 --> 00:45:54,319
you make me feel like one lazy

1253
00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:55,760
mother ever

1254
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:57,359
uh for what i've done with my life

1255
00:46:01,990 --> 00:46:00,160
compared to what you've accomplished so

1256
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:02,000
um you are

1257
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:05,760
a strong strong warrior lady so

1258
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:08,240
um feel good feel proud for uh what

1259
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:10,079
you've accomplished because

1260
00:46:15,910 --> 00:46:12,400
man that is just pure amazing and it's

1261
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:15,920
an inspiration for sure so um yeah keep

1262
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:18,000
up the good work well i guess what i

1263
00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:20,240
could say what i would ask now is uh you

1264
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:22,319
know what do you see for for your future

1265
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:26,240
in this field um is there things um

1266
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:29,680
that you know you kind of talents or or

1267
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:31,200
otherwise that you want to bring to the

1268
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:34,720
table and see through and progress um

1269
00:46:39,349 --> 00:46:36,960
with this topic

1270
00:46:41,309 --> 00:46:39,359
yeah absolutely so there's kind of two

1271
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:41,319
areas that i want to pursue

1272
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:44,640
simultaneously um the first is probably

1273
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:47,200
what most people can guess uh

1274
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:49,680
i think we have a lot of work to do in

1275
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:51,839
upping our advocacy game

1276
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:52,800
um

1277
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:54,480
there are some great people who've done

1278
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:56,400
some efforts before me i'm not trying to

1279
00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:58,400
dismiss any of them they've all done

1280
00:47:01,510 --> 00:46:59,839
some great things and they're a big part

1281
00:47:04,150 --> 00:47:01,520
of the that we

1282
00:47:05,829 --> 00:47:04,160
are having hearings now and what not um

1283
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:05,839
but i think what i see a lot is a big

1284
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:07,680
focus on

1285
00:47:12,550 --> 00:47:10,720
um people like lou and chris and who are

1286
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:12,560
doing direct lobbying on the hill

1287
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:14,079
meaning they're having face-to-face

1288
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:16,160
conversations with officials

1289
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:18,240
and i think we need to complement that

1290
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:20,000
with some really intense grassroots

1291
00:47:22,630 --> 00:47:21,040
pressure

1292
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:22,640
and um

1293
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:24,160
you know as someone who used to do

1294
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:28,400
lobbying both direct and grassroots um i

1295
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:31,599
have a really good idea of when to do it

1296
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:34,720
of how to do it of what is effective not

1297
00:47:38,549 --> 00:47:37,040
you know it's just basic things like

1298
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:38,559
don't write a letter that's longer than

1299
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:40,800
two or three paragraphs right call them

1300
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:41,920
at key times when they're making

1301
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:44,160
decisions making sure that you're only

1302
00:47:50,309 --> 00:47:48,160
concentrating your representatives

1303
00:47:52,710 --> 00:47:50,319
yeah no one's gonna take your phone call

1304
00:47:54,549 --> 00:47:52,720
if you're not from their district um you

1305
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:54,559
know just like basic things it's much

1306
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:56,880
better to have a flood of people

1307
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:59,040
calling and sending messages on the same

1308
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:01,359
day than to have them doing it trickling

1309
00:48:04,630 --> 00:48:02,640
throughout the year

1310
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,640
um so there's a lot of things like that

1311
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:06,400
that i think i can bring to the table

1312
00:48:11,589 --> 00:48:09,920
and it is my hope um to kind of start a

1313
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:11,599
new

1314
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:13,280
i don't know if organization is too

1315
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:15,839
formal of a word but uh effort

1316
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:17,599
um to

1317
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:19,440
educate ufo twitter on these types of

1318
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:21,839
things um to give them tools they need

1319
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:24,160
to be more effective advocates

1320
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:25,760
and i'm really looking forward to that

1321
00:48:28,250 --> 00:48:26,880
it kind of

1322
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:28,260
started

1323
00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:29,920
[Music]

1324
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:31,359
putting things together like for this

1325
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:33,359
hearing and i've actually had a name for

1326
00:48:36,710 --> 00:48:34,720
the group for a while that's really

1327
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:36,720
cheesy so you guys can tell me how bad

1328
00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:38,000
you think it is

1329
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:39,280
but i want to call it the visible

1330
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,119
college because

1331
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:43,280
i think the invisible college should be

1332
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:45,040
done away with right there's no more

1333
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:46,640
need to be invisible about it let's come

1334
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:49,359
out in the open um

1335
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:51,920
so that's what you can look for there

1336
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:55,040
and i'll be sharing more about that soon

1337
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:57,599
and then on the personal side of things

1338
00:49:02,390 --> 00:48:59,599
you know i would love for gary nolan to

1339
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:02,400
hire me i would love to work

1340
00:49:08,069 --> 00:49:06,079
at his new research arm that's outside

1341
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:08,079
of government funding

1342
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:10,640
i am an epidemiologist i have my masters

1343
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:12,720
in epidemiology so

1344
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:15,119
i would love to do health research

1345
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:18,319
so if anyone gary if you're watching

1346
00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:20,880
you know how to reach me and anyone else

1347
00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:22,720
who's doing um

1348
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:24,319
research like that i would love to be

1349
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:32,309
excellent oh sean you're muted

1350
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:33,359
the

1351
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:37,520
that uh effort you just let me know i'm

1352
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:39,839
here for you you can use me as a tool

1353
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,160
for that grassroots effort so

1354
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:44,480
i have a lot of fundraising experience

1355
00:49:50,069 --> 00:49:47,440
and sales experience so that are pretty

1356
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:50,079
pretty good for this kind of stuff so

1357
00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:51,680
jay what do you got

1358
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:53,599
oh well i'm just hoping that gary nolan

1359
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:55,200
is going to be hearing this and we could

1360
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,720
definitely clip it out

1361
00:50:01,270 --> 00:49:58,480
and he's here actually should i add him

1362
00:50:03,750 --> 00:50:01,280
to the stream i'm just kidding

1363
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:03,760
that'd be amazing yeah this is your life

1364
00:50:07,349 --> 00:50:06,000
with gary nolan i'm sorry i didn't know

1365
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:07,359
you were here

1366
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:10,559
be a total oprah moment yeah

1367
00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:19,349
that's right oh my gosh if only it

1368
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:21,119
worked that way you know hopefully it

1369
00:50:24,829 --> 00:50:22,640
hopefully it can in the future in this

1370
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:24,839
field that would be great

1371
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:28,480
um my dm soon like oh no

1372
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:31,760
oh man yeah have i got a job for you

1373
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:34,480
yep and and it's like astrology or

1374
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:35,440
something like that i'm just playing

1375
00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:37,359
around you know you're better than how

1376
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:38,800
many people are asking me if i'm an

1377
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:45,030
greener than five we'll tell you that

1378
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:46,160
yep

1379
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:48,720
uh so uh we're alluding to some private

1380
00:50:53,190 --> 00:50:51,359
conversations that we've had among the

1381
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:53,200
uap book club

1382
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:55,200
and uh you're joining the all-star

1383
00:50:59,670 --> 00:50:58,079
lineup of the uap book club on on

1384
00:51:01,829 --> 00:50:59,680
priscilla stone's quantum witch channel

1385
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:01,839
i saw her in the chat earlier in fact

1386
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:03,040
you picked the next book

1387
00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:05,200
extraterrestrial by avi lope now we

1388
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:08,640
heard from you uh just just before that

1389
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:10,880
that um one of the early books that

1390
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:13,280
really got you into this was leslie

1391
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:15,760
kane's wonderful work

1392
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:18,000
and we're

1393
00:51:21,349 --> 00:51:20,240
big fans of leslie kane over here

1394
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:21,359
leslie

1395
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:23,280
we love wesley kane but um what have

1396
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:25,119
been your other favorite resources for

1397
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:26,960
researching the anomalous books or

1398
00:51:31,829 --> 00:51:29,200
otherwise

1399
00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:31,839
so i'm a big bibliophile so i've bought

1400
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:34,400
so many books um actually some of them

1401
00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:36,079
are behind me you can probably see them

1402
00:51:41,349 --> 00:51:39,839
uh i loved uh diana's american cosmic

1403
00:51:42,630 --> 00:51:41,359
that was incredible i thought it was a

1404
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:42,640
totally different approach to the

1405
00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:44,240
subject i'm just gonna look real quick

1406
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:45,680
what i have up here

1407
00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:46,640
um

1408
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:50,960
some

1409
00:51:55,349 --> 00:51:53,359
books that have to do with consciousness

1410
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:55,359
like biocentrism

1411
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:56,319
um

1412
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:58,079
i'm reading a book on how to do remote

1413
00:52:01,589 --> 00:51:59,680
viewing again i know it's not exactly

1414
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,599
uap but i think like looking into

1415
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:03,359
consciousness is

1416
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:05,200
probably the next frontier so that's

1417
00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:07,520
what i've been really interested in um

1418
00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:09,520
and i wanted to read extraterrestrial

1419
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:12,880
like i mentioned to you guys um because

1420
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:15,839
you know whether or not umomoa is you

1421
00:52:19,109 --> 00:52:17,440
know extraterrestrial i think it's

1422
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:19,119
really good that we start to understand

1423
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:21,680
avilobe right he's head of the galileo

1424
00:52:25,349 --> 00:52:22,880
project i think there's going to be a

1425
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:25,359
lot of movement scientifically forward

1426
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:26,800
from that

1427
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:29,440
um that perspective so i'm excited to

1428
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:30,960
read that and to be a part of the book

1429
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:33,040
club thanks for all thanks for having me

1430
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:34,079
guys

1431
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:37,520
um have i bought ufos before roswell

1432
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:41,280
i'm buying it tonight i promise you i

1433
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:42,960
just bought a book yesterday that got

1434
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:44,880
delivered to my old address in virginia

1435
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:47,440
so i'm still a little bit in a tizzy but

1436
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:49,520
i will buy it tonight

1437
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:51,599
i want that commission

1438
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:53,920
there we go yeah

1439
00:52:57,990 --> 00:52:55,839
oh that's right and you moved recently

1440
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:58,000
how's your move been are you getting

1441
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,640
settled in over there okay yeah and back

1442
00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:02,079
in san diego that's where i'm from

1443
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:06,000
originally so near family and whatnot um

1444
00:53:10,230 --> 00:53:08,240
i just dc wasn't where my heart was

1445
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:10,240
anymore you know like i moved back there

1446
00:53:13,430 --> 00:53:11,839
because i wanted to be up in the buzz

1447
00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:13,440
and then i

1448
00:53:17,910 --> 00:53:15,520
realized that you know the lack of good

1449
00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:17,920
mexican food was just killing me so here

1450
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:19,760
i am

1451
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:22,319
nice and dc is pretty small i've been

1452
00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:24,720
through there on a tour it's

1453
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:28,160
it's uh it's uh great to be there uh you

1454
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:30,000
know for a day or two but any longer

1455
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:31,920
than that and i could i could see

1456
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:33,680
you know how it would be i don't know

1457
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:35,119
get me out of here but

1458
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:36,880
in san diego so beautiful the beaches

1459
00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:39,040
are beautiful the weather is great all

1460
00:53:42,390 --> 00:53:40,640
of southern california wherever you are

1461
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:42,400
there is just beautiful

1462
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:45,359
um was just on vacation there at san

1463
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:48,720
clemente um looking for ufos so that was

1464
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:49,680
fun

1465
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:51,440
um

1466
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:55,589
you know

1467
00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:58,640
i i've maybe

1468
00:54:01,910 --> 00:54:00,160
i'm not sure

1469
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:01,920
i i've been meaning to go back over the

1470
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:05,440
videos and and and check them out but um

1471
00:54:10,710 --> 00:54:08,960
yeah no clear shots of a saucer as as we

1472
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:10,720
know what they look like so which i

1473
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:12,319
don't think that's what they probably

1474
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:14,960
look like anyways but you never know

1475
00:54:19,109 --> 00:54:16,720
um

1476
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:19,119
we're hitting up against the hour so you

1477
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:20,800
know at this point i typically like to

1478
00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:23,520
put the ball in your cord as far as

1479
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:24,720
um

1480
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:26,240
is there anything you would like to

1481
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:29,359
leave the audience with whether it be um

1482
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:31,200
advice or

1483
00:54:36,470 --> 00:54:34,160
or something that we didn't touch on or

1484
00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:36,480
anything it's up to you

1485
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:37,920
yeah you know this is actually kind of

1486
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:41,599
something i tell my dc peeps to

1487
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:42,640
um

1488
00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:44,400
get a hobby that has nothing to do with

1489
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:45,280
this

1490
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:47,040
right like i i think it's really

1491
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:49,040
important when you are really passionate

1492
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:50,400
about a topic that you don't let it

1493
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:52,640
consume you for your own mental health

1494
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:53,760
and also for the mental health of the

1495
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:55,119
people around you

1496
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:57,040
um it also allows you to come back with

1497
00:54:59,910 --> 00:54:58,640
fresh eyes right

1498
00:55:02,069 --> 00:54:59,920
so like

1499
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:02,079
i started thrifting a lot and i'm a

1500
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:03,920
vintage reseller on the side you know

1501
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:05,359
and it allows me to do something that's

1502
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:07,200
totally different has nothing to do with

1503
00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:10,480
uap or foreign policy or genocide i

1504
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:12,799
guess that's pretty much my life right

1505
00:55:15,109 --> 00:55:13,680
um

1506
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:15,119
and i encourage everyone here to do it

1507
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:16,400
because it also

1508
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:17,920
you know if you look at ufo twitter for

1509
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:19,680
example i think a lot of times people

1510
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:21,440
get into the drama and the minutia

1511
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:23,680
because they are bored

1512
00:55:26,789 --> 00:55:25,359
and i think it's time that we all step

1513
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:26,799
back and spend some time with our

1514
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:29,520
families or do learn something new every

1515
00:55:32,950 --> 00:55:31,520
once in a while and it will make us much

1516
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:32,960
more well-rounded

1517
00:55:36,069 --> 00:55:34,400
and

1518
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:36,079
hopefully drown out some of the noise a

1519
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:37,839
bit

1520
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:40,880
that's great advice that's yeah

1521
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,160
i agree mr rindle for sure yeah that's

1522
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:46,319
absolutely great advice

1523
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:47,520
um

1524
00:55:51,670 --> 00:55:49,359
uh let's see uh

1525
00:55:53,829 --> 00:55:51,680
you talked a little bit before i gosh

1526
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:53,839
we're at 55 minutes i'm just looking at

1527
00:55:57,750 --> 00:55:55,599
my questions here i think that that's

1528
00:56:00,789 --> 00:55:57,760
absolutely fantastic i know sean sean's

1529
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:00,799
got his music uh you know i paint

1530
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:03,680
um i i read a lot but though admittedly

1531
00:56:09,349 --> 00:56:06,640
i'm i'm like i'm like a business

1532
00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:09,359
i keep you know the bright light of of

1533
00:56:12,950 --> 00:56:11,200
anomalies and consciousness and things

1534
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:12,960
like that is what i tend towards in my

1535
00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:13,920
reading

1536
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:16,160
so but yeah i completely completely

1537
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:17,520
appreciate that

1538
00:56:21,190 --> 00:56:19,440
um maybe since we'd have just a few

1539
00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:21,200
minutes here and we did say that we're

1540
00:56:25,109 --> 00:56:23,200
going to talk a little bit more about

1541
00:56:27,670 --> 00:56:25,119
your own experiences yourself if you

1542
00:56:30,309 --> 00:56:27,680
don't mind uh you know earlier you

1543
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:30,319
mentioned seeing orbs

1544
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:31,440
things that are indicative of

1545
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:33,839
poltergeist phenomenon or whatever that

1546
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:37,200
is apparitions uh precognition you know

1547
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:38,960
these you know it's

1548
00:56:42,829 --> 00:56:40,720
it's important to remember that that

1549
00:56:46,150 --> 00:56:42,839
these are these are some of the most

1550
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:46,160
commonly reported uh modalities for

1551
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:48,720
experiencers and they often overlap you

1552
00:56:52,950 --> 00:56:51,200
know i mean in terms of normalizing this

1553
00:56:55,270 --> 00:56:52,960
conversation and destigmatizing these

1554
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:55,280
conversations it's important for people

1555
00:56:59,190 --> 00:56:57,520
out there that maybe may not be

1556
00:57:01,750 --> 00:56:59,200
experiencers and it's also important for

1557
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:01,760
other experiencers to to hear from

1558
00:57:07,430 --> 00:57:04,640
people like us that yes in fact you know

1559
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:07,440
it's very common for people to have had

1560
00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:10,000
more than one kind of modality what more

1561
00:57:15,349 --> 00:57:12,400
than one kind of anomalous experience

1562
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:15,359
and it's like you know there's a lot of

1563
00:57:19,349 --> 00:57:17,040
different theories about why that might

1564
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,359
be the case right that you know that

1565
00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:21,200
once the radio's on that you're just

1566
00:57:26,309 --> 00:57:23,200
kind of receiving you know there's a lot

1567
00:57:28,789 --> 00:57:26,319
of ideas about why they that might be

1568
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:28,799
but along those lines if you could pick

1569
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,079
one of

1570
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:32,480
the the situations that's happened to

1571
00:57:36,309 --> 00:57:34,640
you over the years that you felt that

1572
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:36,319
particularly

1573
00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:37,920
um

1574
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:41,440
that was particularly impactful for you

1575
00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:43,599
um and kind of

1576
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:45,839
you know maybe especially something that

1577
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:47,760
that you've kind of

1578
00:57:53,190 --> 00:57:50,640
processed a bit since since what what

1579
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:53,200
had actually happened you know if you

1580
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:54,960
were talking about ontological shock

1581
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:56,559
earlier and of course people like john

1582
00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:58,559
mack and others talk about kind of

1583
00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:00,799
moving from trauma or that shock into

1584
00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:02,480
kind of a transformative state of how

1585
00:58:07,030 --> 00:58:03,760
you process

1586
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:07,040
um what has happened so um

1587
00:58:12,150 --> 00:58:10,240
can you talk a little bit uh maybe uh to

1588
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:12,160
leave the show here today about anything

1589
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:13,359
like that

1590
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:15,359
sure um

1591
00:58:18,309 --> 00:58:16,799
i'll try to do this as fast as i can

1592
00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:18,319
because i know we're short on time so if

1593
00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:20,400
anyone has questions feel free to go

1594
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,400
over sure yeah

1595
00:58:29,349 --> 00:58:24,480
it's not like in an hour my body

1596
00:58:29,359 --> 00:58:33,190
maybe that's a new phenomenon we'll see

1597
00:58:37,109 --> 00:58:35,190
i think um

1598
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:37,119
i've had a lot uh

1599
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:39,440
in the recent years and probably the

1600
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:42,880
most impactful one was last fall

1601
00:58:47,670 --> 00:58:44,720
um

1602
00:58:49,349 --> 00:58:47,680
i was reading about you know uap and

1603
00:58:53,109 --> 00:58:49,359
watching more paranormal docs and things

1604
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:53,119
like that and interested but i was still

1605
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:55,680
kind of in denial honestly about my own

1606
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:57,920
experiences and

1607
00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:59,520
me and my husband noticed that things

1608
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:01,760
were kind of ramping up at our apartment

1609
00:59:04,549 --> 00:59:03,040
um

1610
00:59:07,109 --> 00:59:04,559
lights turning on and off like

1611
00:59:09,510 --> 00:59:07,119
repeatedly that it wasn't an electrical

1612
00:59:11,829 --> 00:59:09,520
issue things flying off the shelf seeing

1613
00:59:12,789 --> 00:59:11,839
orbs like all sorts of stuff

1614
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:12,799
and

1615
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:15,760
i kind of was at my limit um

1616
00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:17,760
and i hadn't told anyone other than my

1617
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:18,799
husband

1618
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:20,400
who witnessed you know all this stuff

1619
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:21,359
too

1620
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:22,640
and

1621
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:24,400
out of the blue my best friend who lives

1622
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:27,440
in australia sent me a message that she

1623
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:29,200
had seen a

1624
00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:31,040
reiki healer for a remote healing

1625
00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:33,280
session and she gifted one to me

1626
00:59:36,710 --> 00:59:35,119
which was weird like we i just out of

1627
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:36,720
the blue we hadn't talked about we

1628
00:59:41,589 --> 00:59:39,119
hadn't talked in months it was strange

1629
00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:41,599
um so i said you know what the hell i'll

1630
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:43,599
try it sounds interesting

1631
00:59:47,589 --> 00:59:44,559
and

1632
00:59:48,950 --> 00:59:47,599
it involved me um basically spending 30

1633
00:59:50,710 --> 00:59:48,960
minutes going into like this deep

1634
00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:50,720
meditation while this woman from

1635
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:52,000
australia

1636
00:59:56,549 --> 00:59:54,720
um did a remote healing session and

1637
00:59:58,230 --> 00:59:56,559
um

1638
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:58,240
it was probably the weirdest experience

1639
01:00:01,910 --> 01:00:01,119
of my life uh i've meditated before

1640
01:00:04,549 --> 01:00:01,920
um

1641
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:04,559
i've done guided meditations non-guided

1642
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:07,440
meditations i've imagined places during

1643
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:09,520
those meditations and nothing's ever

1644
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:10,960
been really out of the ordinary except

1645
01:00:13,589 --> 01:00:11,680
for

1646
01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:13,599
you know meditation being very calming

1647
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:15,760
and um very positive for my mental

1648
01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:16,640
health

1649
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:17,760
so

1650
01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:19,280
i went into this session and i was

1651
01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:21,040
laying in my room and i went into this

1652
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:23,280
deep meditation where i

1653
01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:25,359
intentionally um

1654
01:00:29,670 --> 01:00:27,359
envisioned like this poppy field that i

1655
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:29,680
just kind of go to to be a relaxing

1656
01:00:32,309 --> 01:00:30,720
place

1657
01:00:33,750 --> 01:00:32,319
and

1658
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:33,760
i was conscious the whole time that i

1659
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:35,040
was meditating right that this was an

1660
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:36,960
environment i was creating

1661
01:00:41,589 --> 01:00:39,280
but at some point i seemed to sort of

1662
01:00:43,750 --> 01:00:41,599
have lost control of the space and it

1663
01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:43,760
like was no longer mine and it was

1664
01:00:47,589 --> 01:00:45,200
operating

1665
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:47,599
out of my like conscious intentional

1666
01:00:52,549 --> 01:00:49,520
control and at that point

1667
01:00:54,549 --> 01:00:52,559
my late grandfather popped up um

1668
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:54,559
and for context my grandfather was one

1669
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:57,280
of like the apparitions i've seen um

1670
01:01:01,910 --> 01:01:00,160
he's been around in one way or the other

1671
01:01:04,390 --> 01:01:01,920
for about a decade

1672
01:01:07,349 --> 01:01:04,400
and i've always kind of seen him as

1673
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:07,359
someone who protected me um

1674
01:01:09,910 --> 01:01:08,880
not just because psychologically that's

1675
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:09,920
what you want to think from your

1676
01:01:12,789 --> 01:01:11,359
grandfather but because of some other

1677
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:12,799
experiences i've had that i just don't

1678
01:01:16,069 --> 01:01:14,880
have time to go into

1679
01:01:18,150 --> 01:01:16,079
um

1680
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:18,160
and we were communicating and what was

1681
01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:20,160
really weird was at that point i

1682
01:01:23,670 --> 01:01:21,920
transformed into like a five-year-old

1683
01:01:26,309 --> 01:01:23,680
version of myself

1684
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:26,319
and we were having a conversation and i

1685
01:01:29,349 --> 01:01:28,480
was talking verbally but he was not he

1686
01:01:31,430 --> 01:01:29,359
was

1687
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:31,440
communicating telepathically

1688
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:33,440
which was interesting because i was

1689
01:01:37,990 --> 01:01:35,280
going this is really weird like this is

1690
01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:38,000
not how i would like if i had manifested

1691
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:39,599
my grandfather because i was thinking

1692
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:42,160
about him subconsciously i would never

1693
01:01:46,230 --> 01:01:43,760
imagine that our conversation would

1694
01:01:47,910 --> 01:01:46,240
happen telepathically right like this

1695
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:47,920
especially one-sided it didn't make

1696
01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:49,440
sense to me

1697
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:50,720
and

1698
01:01:55,270 --> 01:01:52,240
he basically started telling me that he

1699
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:55,280
had to go that he had stuck around but

1700
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:57,920
that you know it was his time and

1701
01:02:00,150 --> 01:01:58,880
um

1702
01:02:02,630 --> 01:02:00,160
i'm embarrassed to admit that i

1703
01:02:05,589 --> 01:02:02,640
basically begged him not to i was a

1704
01:02:06,950 --> 01:02:05,599
little selfish um but i was like crying

1705
01:02:08,789 --> 01:02:06,960
and just telling him that i wasn't ready

1706
01:02:10,710 --> 01:02:08,799
for it because i think i had always

1707
01:02:12,789 --> 01:02:10,720
suspected that he kind of stuck around

1708
01:02:14,470 --> 01:02:12,799
to help me with some of this anomalous

1709
01:02:16,630 --> 01:02:14,480
stuff

1710
01:02:18,789 --> 01:02:16,640
and i wasn't ready to face it on my own

1711
01:02:21,190 --> 01:02:18,799
um but finally i kind of got to the

1712
01:02:23,349 --> 01:02:21,200
point where i was at a piece with it

1713
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:23,359
and there was like this low sun on the

1714
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:25,359
horizon but it was huge

1715
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:28,079
and it all of a sudden like expanded

1716
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:29,920
infinitely and just

1717
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:32,240
kind of sucked him up and he was gone

1718
01:02:35,430 --> 01:02:33,520
and

1719
01:02:37,190 --> 01:02:35,440
after that i remember just like sitting

1720
01:02:40,069 --> 01:02:37,200
in this poppy field and again i'm still

1721
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:40,079
aware that i'm technically meditating um

1722
01:02:44,309 --> 01:02:41,680
but i remember just sitting in this

1723
01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:44,319
poppy field and despite like the emotion

1724
01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:46,400
that was attached to that and my tears

1725
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:48,559
and everything i was the most peaceful

1726
01:02:52,390 --> 01:02:50,400
i'd ever felt i mean

1727
01:02:54,710 --> 01:02:52,400
nothing's ever come

1728
01:02:56,710 --> 01:02:54,720
even close to it and i was sitting there

1729
01:02:58,950 --> 01:02:56,720
in this poppy field

1730
01:03:01,750 --> 01:02:58,960
and all of a sudden in my like body like

1731
01:03:04,230 --> 01:03:01,760
my physical body in my bed i felt this

1732
01:03:06,549 --> 01:03:04,240
grip on my left wrist

1733
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:06,559
and i remember noting it going huh

1734
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:08,400
that's weird you know

1735
01:03:12,390 --> 01:03:10,160
and all of a sudden it just started

1736
01:03:15,430 --> 01:03:12,400
getting harder and tighter and tighter

1737
01:03:18,230 --> 01:03:15,440
and tighter and it freaked me out and it

1738
01:03:19,430 --> 01:03:18,240
like snapped me out of my meditation

1739
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:19,440
and

1740
01:03:24,390 --> 01:03:21,039
i don't know what happened but all i

1741
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:24,400
know is that like i felt so unsafe

1742
01:03:28,470 --> 01:03:26,720
and like the most fear i've ever felt in

1743
01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:28,480
my entire life and i remember just

1744
01:03:32,549 --> 01:03:30,960
laying in bed

1745
01:03:35,109 --> 01:03:32,559
and like i could have called my husband

1746
01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:35,119
he was downstairs but i was just frozen

1747
01:03:39,349 --> 01:03:36,720
and i think i laid there for like 10

1748
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:39,359
minutes just terrified you know eyes

1749
01:03:43,029 --> 01:03:41,760
open just not able to move

1750
01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:43,039
um

1751
01:03:47,349 --> 01:03:45,440
and after that i didn't meditate for

1752
01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:47,359
like a long time because i i didn't

1753
01:03:50,150 --> 01:03:49,200
understand what had happened

1754
01:03:51,910 --> 01:03:50,160
um

1755
01:03:53,109 --> 01:03:51,920
i've since had people suggest that like

1756
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:53,119
maybe

1757
01:03:57,430 --> 01:03:55,839
i got snapped back out of the meditation

1758
01:04:00,309 --> 01:03:57,440
you know and that that fear was just

1759
01:04:03,349 --> 01:04:00,319
kind of like fight or flight um

1760
01:04:05,829 --> 01:04:03,359
but i now do like grounding practices

1761
01:04:07,349 --> 01:04:05,839
before i meditate just to kind of make

1762
01:04:09,190 --> 01:04:07,359
sure i feel safe

1763
01:04:10,470 --> 01:04:09,200
um so you know i don't know what

1764
01:04:13,349 --> 01:04:10,480
happened i

1765
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:13,359
i can tell you that

1766
01:04:16,710 --> 01:04:15,680
the environment that i was in felt more

1767
01:04:18,789 --> 01:04:16,720
real

1768
01:04:21,190 --> 01:04:18,799
than anything else i've ever felt right

1769
01:04:22,710 --> 01:04:21,200
like i i've it wasn't my imagination it

1770
01:04:24,870 --> 01:04:22,720
was something different

1771
01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:24,880
um and i wouldn't have imagined my

1772
01:04:28,630 --> 01:04:26,640
grandfather in that way communicating

1773
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:28,640
with me um

1774
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:30,799
so i think it was really powerful

1775
01:04:33,750 --> 01:04:32,400
because it also

1776
01:04:35,270 --> 01:04:33,760
signaled to me a little bit that like

1777
01:04:37,349 --> 01:04:35,280
maybe it was time for me to move on

1778
01:04:40,470 --> 01:04:37,359
because one of the things

1779
01:04:43,990 --> 01:04:40,480
the um the reiki healer told me after

1780
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:44,000
that whole that whole process was that

1781
01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:46,160
she suspected

1782
01:04:50,870 --> 01:04:49,039
i was having a ramp up of activity

1783
01:04:52,549 --> 01:04:50,880
in my home and that the reason i was

1784
01:04:53,750 --> 01:04:52,559
having it was because i was fighting it

1785
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:53,760
so bad

1786
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:55,599
and that i needed to just kind of accept

1787
01:04:59,750 --> 01:04:57,119
it as what it was

1788
01:05:02,069 --> 01:04:59,760
and it would calm down and it did and so

1789
01:05:04,309 --> 01:05:02,079
i i kind of wonder if my grandfather you

1790
01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:04,319
know was a bit of a crutch and it was

1791
01:05:09,270 --> 01:05:06,160
time for him to go so that i could kind

1792
01:05:11,029 --> 01:05:09,280
of just be on my own two feet there

1793
01:05:12,870 --> 01:05:11,039
so yeah don't really know what it was

1794
01:05:15,109 --> 01:05:12,880
don't have lots of answers but it was

1795
01:05:17,109 --> 01:05:15,119
probably the most impactful experience

1796
01:05:19,349 --> 01:05:17,119
i've had so far

1797
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:19,359
thank you so much for sharing that katie

1798
01:05:24,150 --> 01:05:21,200
really deeply appreciate it

1799
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:24,160
yeah dude that that's not uh easy thing

1800
01:05:28,390 --> 01:05:24,880
to

1801
01:05:29,670 --> 01:05:28,400
most definitely especially um with

1802
01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:29,680
meditation and

1803
01:05:32,789 --> 01:05:30,960
kind of visions that you have in

1804
01:05:34,549 --> 01:05:32,799
meditation i've i've definitely had

1805
01:05:36,630 --> 01:05:34,559
dreams about um

1806
01:05:38,950 --> 01:05:36,640
you know past levels that i was uh

1807
01:05:40,630 --> 01:05:38,960
really close to that uh when i wake up

1808
01:05:43,190 --> 01:05:40,640
i'm in tears and you know it's more than

1809
01:05:46,390 --> 01:05:43,200
a dream uh because of what transpired in

1810
01:05:49,910 --> 01:05:46,400
the dream um but again it's you know

1811
01:05:51,430 --> 01:05:49,920
the thing that um i appreciate about you

1812
01:05:53,349 --> 01:05:51,440
know those experiences and other

1813
01:05:55,990 --> 01:05:53,359
paranormal experiences

1814
01:05:59,109 --> 01:05:56,000
um and ufo uap

1815
01:06:01,990 --> 01:05:59,119
experiences is they all share

1816
01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:02,000
a common uh theme underneath it all you

1817
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:05,200
know which is um first of all it's

1818
01:06:09,990 --> 01:06:06,720
unexplainable

1819
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:10,000
and it kind of opens your perspective

1820
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:12,319
and it's hard to talk to people about

1821
01:06:16,630 --> 01:06:14,559
you know there's so many coming at

1822
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:16,640
commonalities with all this stuff that

1823
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:18,240
it really doesn't matter what kind of

1824
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:20,559
experience you've had it's an experience

1825
01:06:25,029 --> 01:06:23,039
and those uh kind of attributes are

1826
01:06:25,990 --> 01:06:25,039
shared and are the same

1827
01:06:27,910 --> 01:06:26,000
um

1828
01:06:29,829 --> 01:06:27,920
and they're all hard to talk about

1829
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:29,839
you know so and

1830
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:31,520
i think more people like you do talk

1831
01:06:34,390 --> 01:06:33,520
about it and and other people

1832
01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:34,400
uh

1833
01:06:38,950 --> 01:06:36,640
the more other people will bring up

1834
01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:38,960
stories they may be afraid to talk about

1835
01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:41,280
you know i'll share something with you

1836
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:44,960
uh right now and it was on mother's day

1837
01:06:49,829 --> 01:06:48,240
and um i was at their house and i

1838
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:49,839
actually was started to open up a little

1839
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:52,079
bit about what i've been through and all

1840
01:06:56,230 --> 01:06:54,160
that kind of stuff and how hard it is to

1841
01:06:59,990 --> 01:06:56,240
talk to people and my mom actually told

1842
01:07:01,190 --> 01:07:00,000
me a story about when she was 13.

1843
01:07:02,470 --> 01:07:01,200
and

1844
01:07:04,630 --> 01:07:02,480
she is

1845
01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:04,640
the complete opposite of anyone i would

1846
01:07:08,710 --> 01:07:07,039
ever think would you know admit this

1847
01:07:12,309 --> 01:07:08,720
kind of story to me

1848
01:07:14,630 --> 01:07:12,319
um and she tells me stories she's 13 a

1849
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:14,640
bright white figure came into her room

1850
01:07:18,789 --> 01:07:16,559
scared scared her she put a sheet over

1851
01:07:21,829 --> 01:07:18,799
her head she thought it was jesus

1852
01:07:24,230 --> 01:07:21,839
um she remembers telling her sister but

1853
01:07:27,190 --> 01:07:24,240
she remembers it vividly to this day you

1854
01:07:29,829 --> 01:07:27,200
know and i would have never known that

1855
01:07:30,870 --> 01:07:29,839
you know without having opened up myself

1856
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:30,880
and

1857
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:32,799
so you doing that

1858
01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:35,280
is going to affect somebody else

1859
01:07:41,109 --> 01:07:37,920
to share their story um

1860
01:07:42,950 --> 01:07:41,119
and that's the kind of uh

1861
01:07:44,710 --> 01:07:42,960
uh intimate discussion i think that will

1862
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:44,720
help this stuff

1863
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:46,640
yeah it's the kind of world

1864
01:07:48,789 --> 01:07:47,440
yeah

1865
01:07:51,750 --> 01:07:48,799
it's the kind of world we want to live

1866
01:07:53,029 --> 01:07:51,760
in i think anyway yeah myself anyway you

1867
01:07:54,309 --> 01:07:53,039
know yeah

1868
01:07:56,309 --> 01:07:54,319
thank you so much

1869
01:07:58,230 --> 01:07:56,319
weirder a weirder more beautiful place

1870
01:07:59,029 --> 01:07:58,240
than we give it credit for

1871
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:59,039
yeah

1872
01:08:03,670 --> 01:08:00,480
100

1873
01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:03,680
well there's so much more to dig into

1874
01:08:07,829 --> 01:08:05,359
but this is really just kind of an

1875
01:08:09,750 --> 01:08:07,839
introductory to the audience uh to you

1876
01:08:11,750 --> 01:08:09,760
katie uh we're going gonna be seeing you

1877
01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:11,760
on uap book club

1878
01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:13,680
uh and we're gonna be

1879
01:08:17,349 --> 01:08:15,440
uh having more of these conversations in

1880
01:08:20,229 --> 01:08:17,359
the future it's so great to see you

1881
01:08:22,709 --> 01:08:20,239
today yeah i hope you come back so

1882
01:08:24,550 --> 01:08:22,719
hey anytime thanks for having me uh love

1883
01:08:26,229 --> 01:08:24,560
chatting with you guys and

1884
01:08:27,669 --> 01:08:26,239
games are open everyone wants to make

1885
01:08:30,309 --> 01:08:27,679
friends so

1886
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:30,319
well well be careful what you wish for

1887
01:08:34,070 --> 01:08:32,080
all right that's right

1888
01:08:35,269 --> 01:08:34,080
yeah i would laugh additionally don't

1889
01:08:37,110 --> 01:08:35,279
worry

1890
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:37,120
okay all right fair enough that's right

1891
01:08:42,390 --> 01:08:40,480
and uh and speaking of dms uh please say

1892
01:08:43,829 --> 01:08:42,400
hello to your gorgeous husband for for

1893
01:08:45,749 --> 01:08:43,839
both of us okay

1894
01:08:47,510 --> 01:08:45,759
yeah it's very important he very much

1895
01:08:49,189 --> 01:08:47,520
appreciates being called gorgeous so

1896
01:08:50,870 --> 01:08:49,199
i'll let him know i was gonna say i

1897
01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:50,880
haven't seen him yet

1898
01:08:54,229 --> 01:08:52,640
but i'll take your word for it that's

1899
01:08:55,110 --> 01:08:54,239
because you don't follow me on instagram

1900
01:08:56,309 --> 01:08:55,120
sean

1901
01:08:58,070 --> 01:08:56,319
oh

1902
01:08:59,990 --> 01:08:58,080
well it's probably retribution from the

1903
01:09:02,229 --> 01:09:00,000
whole twitter fiasco

1904
01:09:04,870 --> 01:09:03,269
all right

1905
01:09:06,789 --> 01:09:04,880
have a good day i appreciate it thank

1906
01:09:11,510 --> 01:09:06,799
you so much have a great weekend it's

1907
01:09:14,470 --> 01:09:13,349
well awesome i guess that wraps up the

1908
01:09:17,749 --> 01:09:14,480
week huh

1909
01:09:19,910 --> 01:09:17,759
yeah i guess it does um

1910
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:19,920
yeah that was an absolutely wonderful

1911
01:09:24,309 --> 01:09:23,120
conversation i it was great to have

1912
01:09:26,390 --> 01:09:24,319
it move

1913
01:09:29,749 --> 01:09:26,400
through so many wonderful topics

1914
01:09:32,950 --> 01:09:29,759
uh so fluidly and organically and uh

1915
01:09:35,349 --> 01:09:32,960
it's wonderful to have the audience here

1916
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:35,359
chiming in all along the way this has

1917
01:09:40,550 --> 01:09:38,239
been a great week and we're gonna have

1918
01:09:42,870 --> 01:09:40,560
maybe an even better week next week it's

1919
01:09:45,910 --> 01:09:42,880
great having people like katie around

1920
01:09:48,470 --> 01:09:45,920
um and being able to kind of help

1921
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:48,480
orient the conversation with regard to

1922
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:51,279
these these dc policy wonks and whatnot

1923
01:09:56,790 --> 01:09:54,480
and what a great congress priceless abs

1924
01:09:58,790 --> 01:09:56,800
absolutely and from somebody that that

1925
01:09:59,590 --> 01:09:58,800
has done so much humanitarian work and

1926
01:10:05,350 --> 01:09:59,600
has

1927
01:10:07,510 --> 01:10:05,360
great to be able to have her back in the

1928
01:10:10,470 --> 01:10:07,520
future for sure yeah i look so much

1929
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:10,480
forward to developing uh that uh uap

1930
01:10:14,550 --> 01:10:12,480
relationship and

1931
01:10:16,950 --> 01:10:14,560
you know learning more about her and i

1932
01:10:18,870 --> 01:10:16,960
just look forward to uh what she's going

1933
01:10:20,709 --> 01:10:18,880
to bring to the table just from this

1934
01:10:23,669 --> 01:10:20,719
short conversation you can tell how

1935
01:10:25,910 --> 01:10:23,679
brilliant she is in her background and

1936
01:10:26,950 --> 01:10:25,920
is it's just perfect for this she's you

1937
01:10:29,350 --> 01:10:26,960
know she

1938
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:29,360
she made us swallow kind of a heart pill

1939
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:31,120
you know but uh

1940
01:10:35,030 --> 01:10:33,199
it's an important one but it's necessary

1941
01:10:36,790 --> 01:10:35,040
you know because the ebbs and flows here

1942
01:10:38,790 --> 01:10:36,800
can be too much sometimes of the

1943
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:38,800
excitement and disappointment i think

1944
01:10:42,870 --> 01:10:40,480
you know there's a nice

1945
01:10:44,870 --> 01:10:42,880
even level that we can reach and i think

1946
01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:44,880
that really helps so

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100

1948
01:10:51,270 --> 01:10:49,199
that being said

1949
01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:51,280
um yeah we're going to live stream the

1950
01:10:55,030 --> 01:10:53,360
thing here on tuesday morning the the

1951
01:10:57,110 --> 01:10:55,040
congressional hearings so be here on

1952
01:10:58,790 --> 01:10:57,120
tuesday morning at 9 00 a.m central time

1953
01:11:00,870 --> 01:10:58,800
we're gonna live stream with jay i think

1954
01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:00,880
quantum which is coming maybe graham

1955
01:11:05,910 --> 01:11:04,800
disclosure team vinnie um and uh

1956
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so

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01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:08,719
historic day big historic day

1958
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:10,800
yeah and there'll certainly be a lot to

1959
01:11:13,990 --> 01:11:12,800
talk about and a lot to digest after

1960
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:14,000
that hearing

1961
01:11:18,310 --> 01:11:16,000
so uh i'm looking forward to that i'm

1962
01:11:19,990 --> 01:11:18,320
already gearing up for it um and what

1963
01:11:22,149 --> 01:11:20,000
are you doing to gear up for it

1964
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:22,159
what's your guarantee process um the

1965
01:11:28,310 --> 01:11:24,880
gearing up process um it's

1966
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:28,320
you know it's it starts with kind of a

1967
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:32,400
a like a hot yoga procedure um typically

1968
01:11:36,390 --> 01:11:35,199
you know i'm gonna guess it yeah i i've

1969
01:11:38,229 --> 01:11:36,400
been um

1970
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:38,239
you know there's a fast i'm gonna do

1971
01:11:43,669 --> 01:11:40,960
like a 48 hour fast beforehand i think i

1972
01:11:45,430 --> 01:11:43,679
think that's important you know yeah 48

1973
01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:45,440
hours it seems kind of slow a lot of

1974
01:11:49,830 --> 01:11:48,000
vitamin d a lot of sunlight

1975
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:49,840
yeah it's going to be important

1976
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:52,640
so uh i i you know we'll see like

1977
01:11:57,189 --> 01:11:54,880
hopefully i've i'll be kind of prepped

1978
01:11:59,990 --> 01:11:57,199
enough for it yeah i think it'll be good

1979
01:12:01,750 --> 01:12:00,000
all right well um yeah send me some your

1980
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:01,760
routine maybe maybe i'll give it a shot

1981
01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:03,840
let you know i'll give you a a review

1982
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:10,709
please give me five stars on yelp

1983
01:12:15,110 --> 01:12:13,440
for my prep regime sounds good

1984
01:12:16,870 --> 01:12:15,120
all right guys i appreciate everyone in

1985
01:12:19,189 --> 01:12:16,880
the chat for being so great awesome as

1986
01:12:20,950 --> 01:12:19,199
always super uh polite and everything

1987
01:12:22,950 --> 01:12:20,960
and and just really great to each other

1988
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:22,960
so i appreciate it thank you subscribe

1989
01:12:25,590 --> 01:12:24,239
for that yep

1990
01:12:35,470 --> 01:12:25,600
we'll see all right see you next week